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axelf

Folders for organizing entries

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Hi,

bring back the folders of the previous version. Using tags instead of folders makes no sense. That's the worst decision ever to remove this feature.

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For me tags are not folders. Why exist folders and tags if they are the same? I have different use cases for both of them.

Edited by axelf

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On 10/11/2020 at 4:38 PM, axelf said:

For me tags are not folders. Why exist folders and tags if they are the same? I have different use cases for both of them.

If you changed the name of Tags to Folders you could still achieve the same outcome, I am sorry but I just do not see the problem people are having!

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3 hours ago, Dentonthebear said:

If you changed the name of Tags to Folders you could still achieve the same outcome, I am sorry but I just do not see the problem people are having!

I partially agree with you, you are right, you might think that tags are folders, but this is still wrong because the very definition of a tag and what functions it performs in its direct purpose are completely different from what tags perform in the case of a password manager from enpass.
Well, agree.

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11 minutes ago, pauloirply said:

I partially agree with you, you are right, you might think that tags are folders, but this is still wrong because the very definition of a tag and what functions it performs in its direct purpose are completely different from what tags perform in the case of a password manager from enpass.
Well, agree.

Hi @pauloirply

Yes I do realize that Tags and Folders are not directly interchangeable features, but...  At the end of the day Tags is the current feature in Enpass not Folders and I can use Tags as well if not better for my purposes as I could with a generic folder system I am happy, even if others cannot figure a way of implementing them.  But that is just me I suppose.

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11 minutes ago, Dentonthebear said:

Hi @pauloirply

Yes I do realize that Tags and Folders are not directly interchangeable features, but...  At the end of the day Tags is the current feature in Enpass not Folders and I can use Tags as well if not better for my purposes as I could with a generic folder system I am happy, even if others cannot figure a way of implementing them.  But that is just me I suppose.

When I decided to switch to ENPASS, I sent a bug report, which was just about tags and sub tags.
The problem has been resolved, no doubt.
In short, the problem was that earlier, for a very long time, I used the keepass password manager. And there the tree structure was presented exactly in folders, subfolders and so on.
And when I did export from keepass and import into enpass, I saw how much the enpass logic differs from the traditional view of organizing data for MOST password managers, including keepass.
Hence, a bunch of posts on the forums because people who have "moved" to the enpass cannot understand why on FOLDERS now we need to say "TAGS". Do you understand what I mean? In fact, this is a substitution of concepts.
I can definitely say that I like the program, but my broken logic does not allow me to fully trust the ENPASS

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15 minutes ago, pauloirply said:

When I decided to switch to ENPASS, I sent a bug report, which was just about tags and sub tags.
The problem has been resolved, no doubt.
In short, the problem was that earlier, for a very long time, I used the keepass password manager. And there the tree structure was presented exactly in folders, subfolders and so on.
And when I did export from keepass and import into enpass, I saw how much the enpass logic differs from the traditional view of organizing data for MOST password managers, including keepass.
Hence, a bunch of posts on the forums because people who have "moved" to the enpass cannot understand why on FOLDERS now we need to say "TAGS". Do you understand what I mean? In fact, this is a substitution of concepts.
I can definitely say that I like the program, but my broken logic does not allow me to fully trust the ENPASS

Hi @pauloirply

Why say Tags as opposed to Folder?  Because while they be can be used in a way similar to each another, they are different beasts and not just a substitution of concepts.

I will attempt to explain as I see it, sorry if I am teaching you to suck eggs:

Folders

An item/record titled: Amazon.

A traditional folder system with a tree such as: Clients > Dentonthebear > Logins > A to E.

You 'physically' place the item in to the folder A to E detailed above.

That item/record can only be located in one place, namely Clients > Dentonthebear > Logins > A to E (a slight over simplification as the item/record would still be visible in the central column in the GUI).

Tags

An item/record titled: Dentonthebear - Amazon

Different tag layouts:

Clients - Residential > Logins

Clients - Residential > A to E

Residential Clients > Dentonthebear

The item/record is tagged with all three tags but is not 'physically' moved to any one of the tag locations, but remains in the main root of the programme (again the central column in the GUI).  The tagging system provides a shortcut to the item/record while allowing multiple ways of defining how you find it (if you do not just use the search function).

------

Tags are similar to how Google Picassa worked.  Pictures would be located in the 'My Pictures' folder and Picassa would 'tag' them by year/month/day while moving nothing and displaying a thumbnail of the picture.  Many of my clients could not grasp that the photos were not 'in' Picassa itself ("But I want to back up Picassa!"), because as far as they were concerned as they could see and open them in/from Picassa they must be in Picassa.

I am not trying to sound condescending (but I probably am) when I say I do not understand why people are not grasping the concept of tags vs folders when to me, it makes perfect sense.

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26 minutes ago, Dentonthebear said:

I will attempt to explain as I see it, sorry if I am teaching you to suck eggs:

 

alas, I do not understand your subtle humor.
+ to everything, you yourself have already agreed that animals are different, but you are still trying to prove something to someone.
Let everyone keep their opinion. For me, objectively, TAGS are TAGS. CATALOGS are CATALOGS. I don’t have time to delve into someone else’s logic, which is born by finding, regardless of the real objectivity.

 

Edited by pauloirply

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28 minutes ago, Dentonthebear said:

I am not trying to sound condescending (but I probably am) when I say I do not understand why people are not grasping the concept of tags vs folders when to me, it makes perfect sense.

This is what I am about, and a considerable number of users are trying to convey, including to you, that TAGS are TAGS, and they should not be used as DIRECTORIES.

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For me these are 2 different things, but i know i can't change the software and thats why for me this discussion is pointless.

Using Folder i can have

customer1/mysql
customer2/mysql

I can achieve the same with tags, but if i tag an item i can't have the same tag twice. That makes no sense. It is unique.

 

Edited by axelf

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2 hours ago, pauloirply said:

This is what I am about, and a considerable number of users are trying to convey, including to you, that TAGS are TAGS, and they should not be used as DIRECTORIES.

Hi,

I am happy to use Tags as a folder structure because I understand how they work and I have a consistent and robust naming system for my data.  For those that think otherwise, well I cannot help that.  We will have to continue to agree to disagree.

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1 hour ago, axelf said:

I can achieve the same with tags, but if i tag an item i can't have the same tag twice. That makes no sense. It is unique.

I think I am I missing your point?  It is possible to have many subtags with the same name, but of course I am not able to create more than one main level tag with the same name.

Item/Record > Top Level Tag > Subtag > Subtag

HP DeskPro G7 > Dentonthebear > Hardware > Computers > Desktops

HP DeskPro G7 > A N Other Customer > Hardware > Computers > Desktops

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@Dentonthebear i mean i can use a tag twice in enpass but for me a tag is something i use unique. (e.g. i can tag all my articles with "desktop" but i can have two different subfolders with the name "desktop"). At least this is my use case :-)

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3 hours ago, pauloirply said:

alas, I do not understand your subtle humor.
+ to everything, you yourself have already agreed that animals are different, but you are still trying to prove something to someone.
Let everyone keep their opinion. For me, objectively, TAGS are TAGS. CATALOGS are CATALOGS. I don’t have time to delve into someone else’s logic, which is born by finding, regardless of the real objectivity.

The humour: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teaching_grandmother_to_suck_eggs

I am not trying to change peoples opinions, but rather help users to understand how they can use tags if Sinew decide not to implement folders for the foreseeable future.

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On 11/5/2020 at 8:17 PM, Dentonthebear said:

Hi,

I am happy to use Tags as a folder structure because I understand how they work and I have a consistent and robust naming system for my data.  For those that think otherwise, well I cannot help that.  We will have to continue to agree to disagree.

Could you explain your structure? Perhaps we can adopt it for using with our tags.

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On 11/22/2020 at 3:39 PM, axelf said:

Could you explain your structure? Perhaps we can adopt it for using with our tags.

Hi @axelf

Nothing earth-shattering:

Main tag > Clients
Sub tags > Business / Residential

Then I set up a sub tag for each client under the appropriate heading and then add various sub tabs for my use case.

After that when creating a new entry I can simply navigate down the tag tree to the correct sub tag and create a new entry as required.  Alternatively, create a new entry and drag and drop it to the appropriate tag/sub tag.  The only time I will need to manually enter a tag path in an entry is if I want to 'put' it in two or more places.

The titles to my entries are also usually pretty descriptive, e.g. Denton The Bear - User Profile - Desktop #1.  This way I can also use the search to narrow down entries without navigating the tag tree, this I find is easier when I am working off my phone.

As I say it is nothing overly sophisticated, looks and acts like a folder structure with some added benefits, the other thing not related to tags I use a large amount is custom templates to speed up my workflow.

No it is not going to be everyone's cup of tea, but I am making it work for my situation and of course it may not be what others want but that does not mean that it should be thrown out in favour of something else.

Hopefully this will make sense, if not please let me know and I will try to expand and clarify.

 

Selection_005.jpg

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